iffeminismisforequality:

angeliccacophony:

iffeminismisforequality:

Then why do feminist organizations still support affirmative action in universities regarding women when it’s clearly unnecessary?

It’s not, though. It’s necessary to make sure that women do indeed have a fair chance at getting into college. A woman who wants to go to a trade or tech school may be turned away simply because she’s a woman. In fields where it’s largely dominated by males, women could be turned away simply because it’s not believed a woman belongs in those universities. The reason women are going to college is because they know they have their fair shake.

Plus, you’re discounting race and ability. WoC are discriminated against far more than white women, simply because of their ethnicity. This rise in numbers isn’t just one factor, as I said before. It’s taking into account WoC, women with disabilities, women who otherwise would have no chance. It guarantees that no matter the situation of the woman, she’s got an equal chance at an education, no matter her ethnicity, ability, etc. You need to take all the factors into account.

Take away affirmative action, you run the risk of colleges turning into boys clubs again.

I’m sorry, there’re just so many different kinds of logic fail in those three paragraphs.

In the first paragraph you’re trying to argue that women aren’t given a fair chance despite pressing and obvious evidence that they are because if they weren’t, the sure as hell wouldn’t make up almost 3/5ths of all college students.  You’ve got to be willfully ignorant to make an argument like that.  Let’s also note here that you’ve presented absolutely no evidence of current or extant discrimination against women in university admissions, possibly because you (probably) only have a vague idea of how it actually works.

More importantly, affirmative action isn’t a “fair chance,” it’s a “free pass.”  It’s allowing underqualified people in over better-qualified applicants who are more deserving, more prepared and more fit.  I have no objection to making sure women get a fair chance, and I’ll shout down anyone who says differently, but that’s not what affirmative action is.  Laws saying you can’t discriminate against women anyone based on race/sex/…?  Great.  Policies which eliminate knowledge of the person’s gender (for example, in Canada admission is purely marks-based with a handful of exceptions, they don’t even know what your name is when they admit you to my knowledge), race, etc?  Great.

Those are equality, this is not.  I don’t understand why you have so much trouble with the idea.

In the second paragraph….so we’re helping women to help black people?  Your logic….well, it isn’t.  Once again, I’m not objecting to targeting and stopping discrimination.  If there’s evidence that black people and disabled people are being discriminated against, you deal with that.  This is about women, and affirmative action targeting women.  Stop trying to bring race and ability into it, because that’s not what we’re talking about.  Most importantly, you still don’t seem to get the difference between “preventing discrimination” and “affirmative action.”  One prevents discrimination, the other is discrimination.  (Just against the targets you deem acceptable.)  

Should a woman be turned away just because she’s a woman, or a black person because they’re black, or a person who is disabled in a way that leaves them capable of fulfilling academic obligations simply because they’re disabled? 

No.

So why should a man be turned away just because he’s a man, or a white person just because they’re a white person, or a person who is not disabled simply because they’re not disabled?

Equality is for everyone.

It amazes me that these people still think we live in a time when sexism is that bad, that women would seriously be turned away from colleges simply for being women. It amazes me that they think the government can do anything to change attitudes like that, and that if it were really that bad right now, that the government would be able to or even want to do anything to stop it.